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So it looks like the witch-hunt against 7-time Tour de France winner Lance Armstrong has finally had the desired result. He has refused to continue to play their game, at the risk of losing everything he competed for. I read his statement earlier and thought it worth linking on here. I've also quoted some of the more prominent parts for those who don't want to read the whole thing. Lance Armstong's Statement of August 23, 2012Quote:There comes a point in every man's life when he has to say, "Enough is enough." For me, that time is now. I have been dealing with claims that I cheated and had an unfair advantage in winning my seven Tours since 1999. Over the past three years, I have been subjected to a two-year federal criminal investigation followed by Travis Tygart's unconstitutional witch hunt. The toll this has taken on my family, and my work for our foundation and on me leads me to where I am today – finished with this nonsense. Quote:If I thought for one moment that by participating in USADA’s process, I could confront these allegations in a fair setting and – once and for all – put these charges to rest, I would jump at the chance. But I refuse to participate in a process that is so one-sided and unfair. Regardless of what Travis Tygart says, there is zero physical evidence to support his outlandish and heinous claims. The only physical evidence here is the hundreds of controls I have passed with flying colors. I made myself available around the clock and around the world. In-competition. Out of competition. Blood. Urine. Whatever they asked for I provided. What is the point of all this testing if, in the end, USADA will not stand by it? Quote:From the beginning, however, this investigation has not been about learning the truth or cleaning up cycling, but about punishing me at all costs. I am a retired cyclist, yet USADA has lodged charges over 17 years old despite its own 8-year limitation. As respected organizations such as UCI and USA Cycling have made clear, USADA lacks jurisdiction even to bring these charges. The international bodies governing cycling have ordered USADA to stop, have given notice that no one should participate in USADA’s improper proceedings, and have made it clear the pronouncements by USADA that it has banned people for life or stripped them of their accomplishments are made without authority. Quote:On top of all that, USADA has allegedly made deals with other riders that circumvent their own rules as long as they said I cheated. Many of those riders continue to race today. Quote:The idea that athletes can be convicted today without positive A and B samples, under the same rules and procedures that apply to athletes with positive tests, perverts the system and creates a process where any begrudged ex-teammate can open a USADA case out of spite or for personal gain or a cheating cyclist can cut a sweetheart deal for themselves. Quote:USADA cannot assert control of a professional international sport and attempt to strip my seven Tour de France titles. Quote:Today I turn the page. I will no longer address this issue, regardless of the circumstances. | |
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There are loads of articles doing the rounds about this, but I thought this one was, well... "interesting" even if I don't agree with it. http://sportsillustrated...oping-fight/?eref=sircrcI find the presumption of guilt, when effectively Armstrong has said that he doesn't recognize the legitimacy of the organization and the charges they bring, to be pretty galling. | |
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Not read all the articles, not seen all the evidence, but this is my take on it.
To Joe Public, a decision not to pursue legal redemption to the bitter end is always met with cynicism. And with Lance's case, it is even more strange to hear a "7-times Tour de France Winner" say he hasn't got the stamina to fight his corner.
Yet, from what I gather, he is the most drug-tested athlete in history, has never failed a single test, and he won his titles when the focus on ridding the sport of drugs was at its most extreme and thus likely to unearth the guilty (especially if they could find a high-profile candidate). So you are left scratching your head as to why this has dogged him so much.
I don't know the truth or how it'll turn out, but it is a nonetheless disappointing story, one you wish will end up in favour of Lance given the inspiration he has provided for so many, but I fear it won't.
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Apparently up to 10 former team mates were going to testify that they had seen him take pe drugs.
He may well have been tested many times and passed.
That's easy if you are one step ahead of the testers.
Many top athletes have beaten the system.
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This may be way off but I heard somewhere that these 10 people who are willing to testify have been offered deals if they implemented Armstrong. What I do know is it was investigated at a Federal level and all charges were thrown out.
Something tells me his fight with the USADA regarding their investigation is over, but the legal battle can only really start when the ban and other stuff becomes offical, then it's going to get messy!
Regardless of if he's guilty or not it's a sad day for sport in general.
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Sky Sports article on USADA's positionTo be honest, I'm not sure USADA can even do what they're claiming to have done. They claim to have stripped Armstrong, but I fail to see (as do a lot of other people) exactly how a US based pseudo-agency can claim to assert authority over the Tour De France. EDIT: Further to this, the UCI don't necessarily believe that the USADA has jurisdiction here either. ARTICLE LINKEdited by user 24 August 2012 21:16:48(UTC)
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not read through all the articles etc, but here's my take on it, they are deffo on a witch hunt and obviously not willing to give up until he's stripped of his numerous titles (which he most probably will be).
yes he passed all of their tests, and yes he was always one step ahead of them, there was even talk of blood transfusions etc.
but, this is probably the most important point, he was competing in a time where all the other riders also took performance enhancing drugs, it was common knowledge at that time in the sport, most of the time, if you didnt agree to the teams 'way' of doing things, you wouldnt get a ride, and therefore couldnt earn a living.
he was still the best, some of his times, especially in the mountainous regions beggered belief, and you had to be pretty stupid not to think hang on, somethings up here.....
but the witch hunt their on now for me is ridiculous, after all these years, and only because he's so high profile and his name is lance armstrong.....
only my opinion.
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I think the likelihood is he was doing things (autologous blood doping, maybe EPO) that weren't against the rules at the time he was doing them, but which would break rules that have been introduced since. He may even have been doing those things after they were outlawed, but had a way of stopping them showing up to the testers at those times. This would explain his reluctance to allow his historical samples to be analysed again now. Edited by user 24 August 2012 22:21:07(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: cmj384  This may be way off but I heard somewhere that these 10 people who are willing to testify have been offered deals if they implemented Armstrong. What I do know is it was investigated at a Federal level and all charges were thrown out.
Something tells me his fight with the USADA regarding their investigation is over, but the legal battle can only really start when the ban and other stuff becomes offical, then it's going to get messy!
Regardless of if he's guilty or not it's a sad day for sport in general. It's common practice to offer deals to encourage people to tell what they know, not to lie and just make things up. (Hopefully) It is sad that it comes to this and I think Rich, like many, myself included possibly, doesn't want to be told that someone like him was dirty. But as Paz said, at the time in order to compete, you had to take drugs. If everyone else was on PED's how the hell did he win 7 on the trot if he wasn't? | FOR GOD'S SAKE!! Why can't people just accept me as the person I pretend to be! |
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I read something earlier which said that he spent 'x' amount of time out with the cancer thing, and on his return, having not been in training for ages, he still finished 3rd in a massive race.
Add to that the fact he was proven to have a ridiculous lung capacity, and other natural gifts he had which made him essentially a freak of nature in terms of cycling, and I don't think it's crazy to think he could beat people who were doping while he was clean.
If we find out that Yohann Blake, Tyson Gay and Asafa Powell are doping tomorrow, does that necessarily mean that Usain Bolt is too?
Aside from that, yes, Slimbob, you're correct inasmuch as I do not want to find out Armstrong was guilty, but at the same time I'm genuinely outraged by the fact that he was cleared by a Federal investigation, that the USADA has broken all their own rules, and that such lengths have been gone to in order to singularly hound Armstrong. Statutes of limitations, plus constitutional constraints, plus jurisdictional matters, seem to have been flouted in order to ban and destroy the legacy of an already retired cyclist. It seems crazy to me. | |
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Originally Posted by: Rich Wharton
Add to that the fact he was proven to have a ridiculous lung capacity, and other natural gifts he had which made him essentially a freak of nature in terms of cycling, and I don't think it's crazy to think he could beat people who were doping while he was clean.
............. seem to have been flouted in order to ban and destroy the legacy of an already retired cyclist. It seems crazy to me.
On the first point. Exactly the same things were said of Miguel Indurain who won 5 on the trot from about 1990. But if you can't find any other reason for multiple winning you would probably assume the winner had a unique body. Second point, I agree. | FOR GOD'S SAKE!! Why can't people just accept me as the person I pretend to be! |
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As an aside, I notice Cheesecake is on line.
I wonder what his performance enhancing drug of choice would be? | FOR GOD'S SAKE!! Why can't people just accept me as the person I pretend to be! |
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Originally Posted by: Slimbob Originally Posted by: Rich Wharton
Add to that the fact he was proven to have a ridiculous lung capacity, and other natural gifts he had which made him essentially a freak of nature in terms of cycling, and I don't think it's crazy to think he could beat people who were doping while he was clean.
............. seem to have been flouted in order to ban and destroy the legacy of an already retired cyclist. It seems crazy to me.
On the first point. Exactly the same things were said of Miguel Indurain who won 5 on the trot from about 1990. But if you can't find any other reason for multiple winning you would probably assume the winner had a unique body. Second point, I agree. I don't fully comprehend your first point. Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me?  | |
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Originally Posted by: Rich Wharton I don't fully comprehend your first point. Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? Neither. To explain a massive superiority for both Indurain and Armstrong advantages in body make up were cited. Lung capacity, low pulse rate, length of shin (??) in Indurain's case etc. I would like to think they were clean, but if I was to be honest I don't. | FOR GOD'S SAKE!! Why can't people just accept me as the person I pretend to be! |
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Originally Posted by: Slimbob Originally Posted by: Rich Wharton I don't fully comprehend your first point. Are you agreeing or disagreeing with me? Neither. To explain a massive superiority for both Indurain and Armstrong advantages in body make up were cited. Lung capacity, low pulse rate, length of shin (??) in Indurain's case etc. I would like to think they were clean, but if I was to be honest I don't. Ah... gotcha....  It's a shame really, that we have to allow some area for doubt when considering the feats of such great men. Maybe the answer (which has been proposed in boxing too, by some pretty big names) is just to allow PEDs. At least it would once again level the playing field. Actually, I should clarify: I said "maybe the answer is", but I don't actually believe that. I just wonder what other logical solutions there are. FTR: as of right now, I don't think Armstrong was dirty. But then, any new information which is subsequently released could change my POV on that particular detail. | |
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It is such a corrupt sport, they should just give up on doping tests in Cycling, and just let them get on with it. If Armstrong is stripped of his 7 tour wins, I am sure any of the next 100 riders that finished behind him were equally as guilty. | Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional. |
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So why isn't he letting them test his historical samples? Surely they prove his innocence?
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