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Any truth in the rumour that the EPA are going to run a Professional World Championship ? If true then the On-Q one would, I assume, make it in competition with the EPA one.
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I can't see how considering the only professionals that the EPA recognised, were those within the IPA.
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Originally Posted by: creggan  Any truth in the rumour that the EPA are going to run a Professional World Championship ? If true then the On-Q one would, I assume, make it in competition with the EPA one. That event should fill up a morning. | S U F C |
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Its probably to cover themselves if they want to ban anyone who enters the On-Q one
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Originally Posted by: creggan  Its probably to cover themselves if they want to ban anyone who enters the On-Q one They'll be banned anyway. Playing BB. | FOR GOD'S SAKE!! Why can't people just accept me as the person I pretend to be! |
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Originally Posted by: Slimbob  Originally Posted by: creggan  Its probably to cover themselves if they want to ban anyone who enters the On-Q one They'll be banned anyway. Playing BB. Playing BB isn't an automatic ban by the EPA, just ask Brewer.
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Originally Posted by: ddavis  Originally Posted by: Slimbob  Originally Posted by: creggan  Its probably to cover themselves if they want to ban anyone who enters the On-Q one They'll be banned anyway. Playing BB. Playing BB isn't an automatic ban by the EPA, just ask Brewer. Ah. The old "one rule for one and another for others" rears its head :-)
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Originally Posted by: creggan  Originally Posted by: ddavis  Originally Posted by: Slimbob  Originally Posted by: creggan  Its probably to cover themselves if they want to ban anyone who enters the On-Q one They'll be banned anyway. Playing BB. Playing BB isn't an automatic ban by the EPA, just ask Brewer. Ah. The old "one rule for one and another for others" rears its head :-) No, there's just never been a policy to suspend people for playing blackball rules.
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In fact there are a number of Blackball leagues that are affiliated to EPA
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Originally Posted by: shootpool  In fact there are a number of Blackball leagues that are affiliated to EPA OK, now I am officially confused. I thought that the EPA considered BB a creeping menace, a ruleset devised and played only in the darkest caverns of Mordor, a competitor to be 'crushed.' But they have affiliate leagues? Rupe says there has "never been a policy to suspend people for playing blackball rules." So is the EPA for the crushing, not for the crushing or not entirely sure which is arse and which is elbow? | FOR GOD'S SAKE!! Why can't people just accept me as the person I pretend to be! |
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I believe you only get banned if you play other rules ABOVE local league level.
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Originally Posted by: shootpool  In fact there are a number of Blackball leagues that are affiliated to EPA Local leagues are affiliated to their counties & the counties are affiliated to the EPA. Edited by user 29 May 2012 09:55:12(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Slimbob  Originally Posted by: shootpool  In fact there are a number of Blackball leagues that are affiliated to EPA OK, now I am officially confused. I thought that the EPA considered BB a creeping menace, a ruleset devised and played only in the darkest caverns of Mordor, a competitor to be 'crushed.' But they have affiliate leagues? Rupe says there has "never been a policy to suspend people for playing blackball rules."So is the EPA for the crushing, not for the crushing or not entirely sure which is arse and which is elbow? Well that is true. The "policy" is to ban EPA card holders for playing in events that rival competitions sanctioned by the EPA. Harwoods personal ambition may be to stop BB spreading (pointless). But if the ON-Q World Champs was played to World Rules the EPA cards would still be withdrawn. Is this not correct? | Manchester United's last 12 league titles have all been won through favourable refereeing decisions. Fact. :0) |
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Right, let's stop speculating about this and deal with facts rather than bringing in personal thoughts!
Fact 1:
The EPA Player Registration form states the following:
I understand that should I play in or administer a pool event organised in direct competition with the English Pool Association (EPA), then this registration may be suspended. Events to which this condition has already been determined to apply are ones not organised by the EPA, or a County Association affiliated to it where the players purport to represent England or an English county.
Fact 2:
The EPA currently run several England teams and a very well structured County set up in England, for English Counties.
Fact 3:
The World Championships and World Masters are WEPF events and NOT EPA events.
So, given that Fact 1 ONLY refers to events that are in direct competition to the EPA and not the WEPF, the ONLY thing the EPA can ban you for is if you play for an English County team or an England team that is not ran by the EPA.
Now, as the only other option, at present, for either of those in England is the Blackball County structure and the Blackball England teams, then it is only if you play in those that they can ban you!
This is where the confusion comes! Because the only alternative in England to the EPA County structure or the EPA England teams is the Blackball equivalent, people think you get banned for playing blackball. Whereas, the truth is that the rules don't make any difference... it's the fact that you're in competition with the EPA that gets you banned.
For example, as has been mentioned, if someone else came along calling themselves the British Pool Association and set up another County structure played to Old EPA rules, then anyone involved in that would also be liable to a ban.
I suspect I've waffled on a hell of a lot there, but the point I'm trying to make is that you do not get banned for playing different sets of rules, providing it is not in direct competition with the EPA.
So, because local leagues and competitions are not in competition with the EPA it does not matter what rules they play to and at the other end of the scale, because the EPA do not run a World Championships, the on Q Promotions Professional 8ball Pool Festival is not in competition with the EPA and therefore they will find it very hard to ban anyone for playing in it... unless, the opening post is correct. But, even then, I do not see how they can set that up without going through an AGM first so it should not be a problem... yet! | I'm fatter, that's how I roll further! |
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Cheers Lurch. Explained it well. But, despite your reasoned logic as to why the On Q entrants shouldn't be banned, I feel sure that they will be. | FOR GOD'S SAKE!! Why can't people just accept me as the person I pretend to be! |
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As I've mentioned previously, it will be done under the guise of bringing the WEPF into disrepute (or something along those lines) and the EPA acting on this as a member of the WEPF.
I left a WEPF British Lions qualifier before the end but as action was taken through the EPA. In theory you could say that Joe Fanto got onto the phone to Bob Wilson and said "Your player made a mess of our tournament" at which point the EPA had to be seen to be taking action.
Whilst it wasn't ideal to be on the end of it and we all know the rules can be bent to suit almost anything, I make them right in this instance.
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Originally Posted by: Lurch  Right, let's stop speculating about this and deal with facts rather than bringing in personal thoughts!
Fact 1:
The EPA Player Registration form states the following:
I understand that should I play in or administer a pool event organised in direct competition with the English Pool Association (EPA), then this registration may be suspended. Events to which this condition has already been determined to apply are ones not organised by the EPA, or a County Association affiliated to it where the players purport to represent England or an English county.
Fact 2:
The EPA currently run several England teams and a very well structured County set up in England, for English Counties.
Fact 3:
The World Championships and World Masters are WEPF events and NOT EPA events.
So, given that Fact 1 ONLY refers to events that are in direct competition to the EPA and not the WEPF, the ONLY thing the EPA can ban you for is if you play for an English County team or an England team that is not ran by the EPA.
Now, as the only other option, at present, for either of those in England is the Blackball County structure and the Blackball England teams, then it is only if you play in those that they can ban you!
This is where the confusion comes! Because the only alternative in England to the EPA County structure or the EPA England teams is the Blackball equivalent, people think you get banned for playing blackball. Whereas, the truth is that the rules don't make any difference... it's the fact that you're in competition with the EPA that gets you banned.
For example, as has been mentioned, if someone else came along calling themselves the British Pool Association and set up another County structure played to Old EPA rules, then anyone involved in that would also be liable to a ban.
I suspect I've waffled on a hell of a lot there, but the point I'm trying to make is that you do not get banned for playing different sets of rules, providing it is not in direct competition with the EPA.
So, because local leagues and competitions are not in competition with the EPA it does not matter what rules they play to and at the other end of the scale, because the EPA do not run a World Championships, the on Q Promotions Professional 8ball Pool Festival is not in competition with the EPA and therefore they will find it very hard to ban anyone for playing in it... unless, the opening post is correct. But, even then, I do not see how they can set that up without going through an AGM first so it should not be a problem... yet! Your right about it not being about the rules, its the direct competition element. However I am sure that the EPA actually have more to do with the WEPF world championships than being just a member nation. I believe (not 100% sure) that the EPA actually run the world championships on behalf of the WEPF when they are in the UK (which is every year), the same way Malta run the euros when they are there. So effectively they run the World Championships, they also have a third stake in the World Masters (maybe as much as half now the IPA are no longer involved). I understand why people believe they should be allowed to enter the on q event, but regardless if the EPA wish to ban people who do, then they will and wont need any sort of AGM to do it. The only way the exact wording and exact agreements on the registration form will be relevant is if there is a legal challenge by someone who will be banned. The organisers who suggested it was not an organisation and so people could not be banned were either naive or forcing the issue in making people choose who they support. This may give On q/IPA a test case to challenge the EPA and test out how enforceable the current regulations are.
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Originally Posted by: breenmachine  The only way the exact wording and exact agreements on the registration form will be relevant is if there is a legal challenge by someone who will be banned. Or, I'd imagine, a legal challenge by the organisers of the On-Q event.
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