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creggan Offline
#1 Posted : 28 May 2012 14:58:03(UTC)
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Any truth in the rumour that the EPA are going to run a Professional World Championship ?
If true then the On-Q one would, I assume, make it in competition with the EPA one.
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Golden Offline
#2 Posted : 28 May 2012 15:53:57(UTC)
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I can't see how considering the only professionals that the EPA recognised, were those within the IPA.
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#3 Posted : 28 May 2012 16:06:35(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: creggan Go to Quoted Post
Any truth in the rumour that the EPA are going to run a Professional World Championship ?
If true then the On-Q one would, I assume, make it in competition with the EPA one.


That event should fill up a morning.
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creggan Offline
#4 Posted : 28 May 2012 17:04:26(UTC)
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Its probably to cover themselves if they want to ban anyone who enters the On-Q one
Slimbob Offline
#5 Posted : 28 May 2012 17:14:08(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: creggan Go to Quoted Post
Its probably to cover themselves if they want to ban anyone who enters the On-Q one


They'll be banned anyway. Playing BB.
FOR GOD'S SAKE!! Why can't people just accept me as the person I pretend to be!
ddavis Offline
#6 Posted : 28 May 2012 20:34:18(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Slimbob Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: creggan Go to Quoted Post
Its probably to cover themselves if they want to ban anyone who enters the On-Q one


They'll be banned anyway. Playing BB.


Playing BB isn't an automatic ban by the EPA, just ask Brewer.
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Slimbob on 28/05/2012(UTC), jasetheace on 29/05/2012(UTC)
creggan Offline
#7 Posted : 28 May 2012 21:07:14(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: ddavis Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Slimbob Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: creggan Go to Quoted Post
Its probably to cover themselves if they want to ban anyone who enters the On-Q one


They'll be banned anyway. Playing BB.


Playing BB isn't an automatic ban by the EPA, just ask Brewer.

Ah. The old "one rule for one and another for others" rears its head :-)
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MACCABIGDISH on 28/05/2012(UTC)
Rupe Offline
#8 Posted : 28 May 2012 23:10:26(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: creggan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ddavis Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Slimbob Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: creggan Go to Quoted Post
Its probably to cover themselves if they want to ban anyone who enters the On-Q one


They'll be banned anyway. Playing BB.


Playing BB isn't an automatic ban by the EPA, just ask Brewer.

Ah. The old "one rule for one and another for others" rears its head :-)

No, there's just never been a policy to suspend people for
playing blackball rules.

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ddavis on 29/05/2012(UTC)
shootpool Offline
#9 Posted : 29 May 2012 06:44:27(UTC)
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In fact there are a number of Blackball leagues that are affiliated to EPA
Slimbob Offline
#10 Posted : 29 May 2012 07:53:32(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: shootpool Go to Quoted Post
In fact there are a number of Blackball leagues that are affiliated to EPA


OK, now I am officially confused. I thought that the EPA considered BB a creeping menace, a ruleset devised and played only in the darkest caverns of Mordor, a competitor to be 'crushed.'

But they have affiliate leagues?
Rupe says there has "never been a policy to suspend people for
playing blackball rules."

So is the EPA for the crushing, not for the crushing or not entirely sure which is arse and which is elbow?


FOR GOD'S SAKE!! Why can't people just accept me as the person I pretend to be!
creggan Offline
#11 Posted : 29 May 2012 09:53:09(UTC)
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I believe you only get banned if you play other rules ABOVE local league level.
creggan Offline
#12 Posted : 29 May 2012 09:54:29(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: shootpool Go to Quoted Post
In fact there are a number of Blackball leagues that are affiliated to EPA

Local leagues are affiliated to their counties & the counties are affiliated to the EPA.

Edited by user 29 May 2012 09:55:12(UTC)  | Reason: alter wrong case in post

jasetheace Offline
#13 Posted : 29 May 2012 11:22:23(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Slimbob Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: shootpool Go to Quoted Post
In fact there are a number of Blackball leagues that are affiliated to EPA


OK, now I am officially confused. I thought that the EPA considered BB a creeping menace, a ruleset devised and played only in the darkest caverns of Mordor, a competitor to be 'crushed.'

But they have affiliate leagues?
Rupe says there has "never been a policy to suspend people for
playing blackball rules."
So is the EPA for the crushing, not for the crushing or not entirely sure which is arse and which is elbow?




Well that is true.

The "policy" is to ban EPA card holders for playing in events that rival competitions sanctioned by the EPA.

Harwoods personal ambition may be to stop BB spreading (pointless).

But if the ON-Q World Champs was played to World Rules the EPA cards would still be withdrawn. Is this not correct?

Manchester United's last 12 league titles have all been won through favourable refereeing decisions. Fact. :0)
Golden Offline
#14 Posted : 29 May 2012 11:31:25(UTC)
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I'd imagine so.
Lurch Offline
#15 Posted : 29 May 2012 12:54:51(UTC)
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Right, let's stop speculating about this and deal with facts rather than bringing in personal thoughts!

Fact 1:

The EPA Player Registration form states the following:

I understand that should I play in or administer a pool event organised in direct competition with the English Pool Association (EPA), then this registration may be suspended. Events to which this condition has already been determined to apply are ones not organised by the EPA, or a County Association affiliated to it where the players purport to represent England or an English county.

Fact 2:

The EPA currently run several England teams and a very well structured County set up in England, for English Counties.

Fact 3:

The World Championships and World Masters are WEPF events and NOT EPA events.

So, given that Fact 1 ONLY refers to events that are in direct competition to the EPA and not the WEPF, the ONLY thing the EPA can ban you for is if you play for an English County team or an England team that is not ran by the EPA.

Now, as the only other option, at present, for either of those in England is the Blackball County structure and the Blackball England teams, then it is only if you play in those that they can ban you!

This is where the confusion comes! Because the only alternative in England to the EPA County structure or the EPA England teams is the Blackball equivalent, people think you get banned for playing blackball. Whereas, the truth is that the rules don't make any difference... it's the fact that you're in competition with the EPA that gets you banned.

For example, as has been mentioned, if someone else came along calling themselves the British Pool Association and set up another County structure played to Old EPA rules, then anyone involved in that would also be liable to a ban.

I suspect I've waffled on a hell of a lot there, but the point I'm trying to make is that you do not get banned for playing different sets of rules, providing it is not in direct competition with the EPA.

So, because local leagues and competitions are not in competition with the EPA it does not matter what rules they play to and at the other end of the scale, because the EPA do not run a World Championships, the on Q Promotions Professional 8ball Pool Festival is not in competition with the EPA and therefore they will find it very hard to ban anyone for playing in it... unless, the opening post is correct. But, even then, I do not see how they can set that up without going through an AGM first so it should not be a problem... yet!
I'm fatter, that's how I roll further!
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Slimbob Offline
#16 Posted : 29 May 2012 13:08:30(UTC)
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Cheers Lurch. Explained it well.
But, despite your reasoned logic as to why the On Q entrants shouldn't be banned, I feel sure that they will be.
FOR GOD'S SAKE!! Why can't people just accept me as the person I pretend to be!
Golden Offline
#17 Posted : 29 May 2012 13:24:44(UTC)
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As I've mentioned previously, it will be done under the guise of bringing the WEPF into disrepute (or something along those lines) and the EPA acting on this as a member of the WEPF.

I left a WEPF British Lions qualifier before the end but as action was taken through the EPA. In theory you could say that Joe Fanto got onto the phone to Bob Wilson and said "Your player made a mess of our tournament" at which point the EPA had to be seen to be taking action.

Whilst it wasn't ideal to be on the end of it and we all know the rules can be bent to suit almost anything, I make them right in this instance.
breenmachine Offline
#18 Posted : 29 May 2012 13:25:25(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Lurch Go to Quoted Post
Right, let's stop speculating about this and deal with facts rather than bringing in personal thoughts!

Fact 1:

The EPA Player Registration form states the following:

I understand that should I play in or administer a pool event organised in direct competition with the English Pool Association (EPA), then this registration may be suspended. Events to which this condition has already been determined to apply are ones not organised by the EPA, or a County Association affiliated to it where the players purport to represent England or an English county.

Fact 2:

The EPA currently run several England teams and a very well structured County set up in England, for English Counties.

Fact 3:

The World Championships and World Masters are WEPF events and NOT EPA events.

So, given that Fact 1 ONLY refers to events that are in direct competition to the EPA and not the WEPF, the ONLY thing the EPA can ban you for is if you play for an English County team or an England team that is not ran by the EPA.

Now, as the only other option, at present, for either of those in England is the Blackball County structure and the Blackball England teams, then it is only if you play in those that they can ban you!

This is where the confusion comes! Because the only alternative in England to the EPA County structure or the EPA England teams is the Blackball equivalent, people think you get banned for playing blackball. Whereas, the truth is that the rules don't make any difference... it's the fact that you're in competition with the EPA that gets you banned.

For example, as has been mentioned, if someone else came along calling themselves the British Pool Association and set up another County structure played to Old EPA rules, then anyone involved in that would also be liable to a ban.

I suspect I've waffled on a hell of a lot there, but the point I'm trying to make is that you do not get banned for playing different sets of rules, providing it is not in direct competition with the EPA.

So, because local leagues and competitions are not in competition with the EPA it does not matter what rules they play to and at the other end of the scale, because the EPA do not run a World Championships, the on Q Promotions Professional 8ball Pool Festival is not in competition with the EPA and therefore they will find it very hard to ban anyone for playing in it... unless, the opening post is correct. But, even then, I do not see how they can set that up without going through an AGM first so it should not be a problem... yet!




Your right about it not being about the rules, its the direct competition element.

However I am sure that the EPA actually have more to do with the WEPF world championships than being just a member nation. I believe (not 100% sure) that the EPA actually run the world championships on behalf of the WEPF when they are in the UK (which is every year), the same way Malta run the euros when they are there. So effectively they run the World Championships, they also have a third stake in the World Masters (maybe as much as half now the IPA are no longer involved).


I understand why people believe they should be allowed to enter the on q event, but regardless if the EPA wish to ban people who do, then they will and wont need any sort of AGM to do it. The only way the exact wording and exact agreements on the registration form will be relevant is if there is a legal challenge by someone who will be banned.

The organisers who suggested it was not an organisation and so people could not be banned were either naive or forcing the issue in making people choose who they support. This may give On q/IPA a test case to challenge the EPA and test out how enforceable the current regulations are.

 4 users thanked breenmachine for this useful post.
Jonaldinho on 29/05/2012(UTC), Slimbob on 29/05/2012(UTC), ddavis on 29/05/2012(UTC), Pointyhead on 03/06/2012(UTC)
ddavis Offline
#19 Posted : 29 May 2012 15:01:36(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: breenmachine Go to Quoted Post
The only way the exact wording and exact agreements on the registration form will be relevant is if there is a legal challenge by someone who will be banned.


Or, I'd imagine, a legal challenge by the organisers of the On-Q event.
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jasetheace on 29/05/2012(UTC)
Golden Offline
#20 Posted : 29 May 2012 15:42:42(UTC)
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